Friday, October 16, 2009

Shanghai Open Thread

Nikolay Davydenko of Russia waits for the final result of his men's singles final match against Rafael Nadal of Spain after Nadal challenged the line man at the Shanghai Masters tennis tournament October 18, 2009.
Reuters

Nikolay Davydenko of Russia waits for the final result of his men's singles final match against Rafael Nadal of Spain after Nadal challenged the line man at the Shanghai Masters tennis tournament October 18, 2009.

Sunday, October 17

Singles - Final
[6] N Davydenko (RUS) d [1] R Nadal (ESP) 76(3) 63

Doubles - Final
J Benneteau (FRA) / J Tsonga (FRA) d [6] M Fyrstenberg (POL) / M Matkowski (POL) 62 64

::


Feliciano Lopez of Spain reacts as he removes his sock to receive medical treatment before retiring from his semi-final match against compatriot Rafael Nadal at the Shanghai Masters tennis tournament October 17, 2009.
Reuters

Feliciano Lopez of Spain reacts as he removes his sock to receive medical treatment before retiring from his semifinal match against compatriot Rafael Nadal at the Shanghai Masters tennis tournament October 17, 2009.

::

Never seen anything like this. A retirement a day keeps the trainers in play.

::

Singles - Semifinals
[1] R Nadal (ESP) d F Lopez (ESP) 61 30 ret. (right ankle)
[6] N Davydenko (RUS) d [2] N Djokovic (SRB) 46 64 76(1)

Doubles - Semifinals
[6] M Fyrstenberg (POL) / M Matkowski (POL) d J Knowle (AUT) / J Melzer (AUT) 61 64

::

Ivan Ljubicic of Croatia gets medical treatment during the second set of his quarter final match with  Rafael Nadal of Spain at the Shanghai Masters tennis tournament in Shanghai October 16, 2009. Ljubicic quit the match after the second set.
Reuters

Ivan Ljubicic of Croatia gets medical treatment during the second set of his quarterfinal match with Rafael Nadal of Spain at the Shanghai Masters tennis tournament in Shanghai October 16, 2009. Ljubicic quit the match after the second set. Another day, another retirement.

::

Singles - Quarterfinals
[1] R Nadal (ESP) d I Ljubicic (CRO) 36 63 ret. (left hip)
[2] N Djokovic (SRB) d [8] G Simon (FRA) 63 26 62
[6] N Davydenko (RUS) d [13] R Stepanek (CZE) 61 46 61
F Lopez (ESP) d [9] R Soderling (SWE) 76(4) 63

Doubles - Semifinals
J Benneteau (FRA) / J Tsonga (FRA) d [3] M Bhupathi (IND) / M Knowles (BAH) 76(2) 62

Doubles - Quarterfinals
J Knowle (AUT) / J Melzer (AUT) d [5] W Moodie (RSA) / D Norman (BEL) 46 76(6) 10-6

::

Stanislas Wawrinka of Switzerland  receives medical treatment during his singles third round match against Radek Stepanek of the Czech Republic at the Shanghai ATP Masters 1000 tennis tournament at Qizhong Stadium Thursday, Oct. 15, 2009, in Shanghai, China. Stepanek won 3-6, 7-6, 4-2 after Wawrinka retired from the match due to an injury.
AP

Stanislas Wawrinka of Switzerland receives medical treatment during his singles third round match against Radek Stepanek of the Czech Republic at the Shanghai ATP Masters 1000 tennis tournament at Qizhong Stadium Thursday, Oct. 15, 2009, in Shanghai, China.

::

Singles - Third Round
[1] R Nadal (ESP) d [14] T Robredo (ESP) 61 64
[2] N Djokovic (SRB) d [Q] R Schuettler (GER) 64 62
[9] R Soderling (SWE) d [5] J Tsonga (FRA) 63 63
[8] G Simon (FRA) d T Berdych (CZE) 63 64
[6] N Davydenko (RUS) d [10] F Gonzalez (CHI) 63 75
I Ljubicic (CRO) d [11] G Monfils (FRA) 62 30 ret. (back)
[13] R Stepanek (CZE) d S Wawrinka (SUI) 36 76(5) 42 ret. (abdominal strain)
F Lopez (ESP) d J Melzer (AUT) 57 76(3) 61

Singles - Quarterfinals
[6] M Fyrstenberg (POL) / M Matkowski (POL) d [2] B Bryan (USA) / M Bryan (USA) 61 57 10-8
[3] M Bhupathi (IND) / M Knowles (BAH) d [8] L Kubot (POL) / O Marach (AUT) 46 63 10-5
J Benneteau (FRA) / J Tsonga (FRA) d F Cermak (CZE) / M Mertinak (SVK) 36 64 10-7

::

SHANGHAI, CHINA - OCTOBER 14:  James Blake of the United States returns a shot to Rafael Nadal of Spain during the 2009 Shanghai ATP Masters 1000 at Qi Zhong Tennis Centre on October 14, 2009 in Shanghai, China.
Getty

James Blake of the United States returns a shot to Rafael Nadal of Spain during the 2009 Shanghai ATP Masters 1000 at Qi Zhong Tennis Centre on October 14, 2009 in Shanghai, China.

::

Wednesday, October 14

Singles - Second Round
[1] R Nadal (ESP) d J Blake (USA) 62 67(4) 64
[2] N Djokovic (SRB) d [Q] F Fognini (ITA) 63 61
J Melzer (AUT) d [3] J Del Potro (ARG) 75 21 ret. (right wrist)
[5] J Tsonga (FRA) d [WC] S Zeng (CHN) 63 63
I Ljubicic (CRO) d [7] F Verdasco (ESP) 64 76(6)
[8] G Simon (FRA) d V Troicki (SRB) 63 64
[9] R Soderling (SWE) d N Almagro (ESP) 64 75
[11] G Monfils (FRA) d L Hewitt (AUS) 46 64 62
[14] T Robredo (ESP) d [Q] F Mayer (GER) 46 76(10) 64 - Saved 3 M.P.
[Q] R Schuettler (GER) d [15] T Haas (GER) 64 ret. (right shoulder)
F Lopez (ESP) d [16] D Ferrer (ESP) 46 75 61
T Berdych (CZE) d [WC] M Safin (RUS) 36 64 64

Doubles - Second Round
J Benneteau (FRA) / J Tsonga (FRA) d [1] D Nestor (CAN) / N Zimonjic (SRB) 64 64
[2] B Bryan (USA) / M Bryan (USA) d S Aspelin (SWE) / P Hanley (AUS) 63 62
[3] M Bhupathi (IND) / M Knowles (BAH) d T Parrott (USA) / F Polasek (SVK) 75 36 10-4
J Knowle (AUT) / J Melzer (AUT) d [4] M Mirnyi (BLR) / A Ram (ISR) 57 63 10-7
[5] W Moodie (RSA) / D Norman (BEL) d F Lopez (ESP) / F Verdasco (ESP) walkover (Verdasco knee)
[6] M Fyrstenberg (POL) / M Matkowski (POL) d L Dlouhy (CZE) / P Petzschner (GER) 62 76(3)
F Cermak (CZE) / M Mertinak (SVK) d [7] B Soares (BRA) / K Ullyett (ZIM) 57 63 10-5
[8] L Kubot (POL) / O Marach (AUT) d B Becker (GER) / T Haas (GER) walkover (Haas - right shoulder)


::

SHANGHAI, CHINA - OCTOBER 13:  Paul-Henri Mathieu of France returns a shot to his compatriot Gael Monfils on day three of 2009 Shanghai ATP Masters 1000 at the Qi Zhong Tennis Centre in Shanghai.
Getty

Paul-Henri Mathieu of France returns a shot to his compatriot Gael Monfils on day three of 2009 Shanghai ATP Masters 1000 at the Qi Zhong Tennis Centre in Shanghai.


::

Tuesday, October 13

Singles - Second Round
S Wawrinka (SUI) d [4] A Roddick (USA) 34 Retired (left knee)
[6] N Davydenko (RUS) d I Kunitsyn (RUS) 64 62
[10] F Gonzalez (CHI) d [Q] T Bellucci (BRA) 63 64
[13] R Stepanek (CZE) d A Beck (GER) 75 64

Singles - First Round
[9] R Soderling (SWE) d V Hanescu (ROU) 63 64
[11] G Monfils (FRA) d P Mathieu (FRA) 62 62
T Berdych (CZE) d [12] M Cilic (CRO) 76(8) 36 64
[15] T Haas (GER) d B Becker (GER) 76(5) 64
L Hewitt (AUS) d J Isner (USA) 62 64
I Ljubicic (CRO) d J Benneteau (FRA) 63 36 61
J Melzer (AUT) d J Chardy (FRA) 64 64
N Almagro (ESP) d P Kohlschreiber (GER) 67(2) 61 76(6)
V Troicki (SRB) d J Monaco (ARG) 61 62

Doubles - First Round
J Benneteau (FRA) / J Tsonga (FRA) d M Llodra (FRA) / R Stepanek (CZE) 75 75
T Parrott (USA) / F Polasek (SVK) d J Blake (USA) / J Isner (USA) 75 62
J Knowle (AUT) / J Melzer (AUT) d [WC] W Gao (CHN) / X Yu (CHN) 63 63
L Dlouhy (CZE) / P Petzschner (GER) d T Berdych (CZE) / P Kohlschreiber (GER) walkover (Kohlschreiber - right shoulder)

::

SHANGHAI, CHINA - OCTOBER 12:  Marat Safin of Russia pick ups his racket during his match against Mao-Xin Gong of China during day two of 2009 Shanghai ATP Masters 1000 at the Qi Zhong Tennis Centre in Shanghai.
Getty

Marat Safin of Russia picks up his racket during his match against Mao-Xin Gong of China during day two of 2009 Shanghai ATP Masters 1000 at the Qi Zhong Tennis Centre in Shanghai.

::


Monday, October 12

Singles - First Round
[10] F Gonzalez (CHI) d M Zverev (GER) 75 67(0) 22 ret. (right wrist)
[13] R Stepanek (CZE) d J Ferrero (ESP) 63 60
[14] T Robredo (ESP) d [Q] M Llodra (FRA) 61 64
[16] D Ferrer (ESP) d R Gasquet (FRA) 64 63
J Blake (USA) d I Karlovic (CRO) 36 76(4) 63
[WC] M Safin (RUS) d [WC] M Gong (CHN) 64 64
S Wawrinka (SUI) [Q] L Kubot (POL) 26 76(5) 76(3)
[Q] F Mayer (GER) d P Petzschner (GER) 63 62
[Q] R Schuettler (GER) d M Vassallo Arguello (ARG) 64 36 76(2)
[Q] F Fognini (ITA) d [WC] E Gulbis (LAT) 76(3) 63
[Q] T Bellucci (BRA) d [Q] M Chiudinelli (SUI) 76(3) 64

Doubles - First Round
S Aspelin (SWE) / P Hanley (AUS) d J Coetzee (RSA) / S Huss (AUS) 46 63 11-9
F Cermak (CZE) / M Mertinak (SVK) d M Damm (CZE) / R Lindstedt (SWE) 46 76(4) 11-9
F Lopez (ESP) / F Verdasco (ESP) d J Monaco (ARG) / T Robredo (ESP) 75 76(5)
B Becker (GER) / T Haas (GER) d [WC] Z Li (CHN) / Y Wang (CHN) 76(5) 60

48 comments:

edma1022 said...

I posted this earlier in ESPN.


http://www.nationalpost.com/sports/story.html?id=2087985

".../ He lacked the icy perfection of Federer, or the unbreakable focus of Nadal; Safin was a mortal with godlike gifts, but a mortal nonetheless.

But the nobility of Safin was that he tried to master himself, year after year. In 2006, his knee was a mess and his game was gone, and he travelled from city to city looking for it. In Toronto, he fell in the first round, raging against his invisible chains like a madman. He looked tortured out there, lost. Sprawled on a leather couch in the players' lounge afterwards, he was asked whether he had ever considered retirement. The big man frowned and smiled at the same time, puzzled.

"Why? Why to quit? To quit is the easiest solution to just run away from the problems," he said, with feeling. "But the problems will catch you sooner or later.

"Without tennis, I wouldn't be nobody. Just because the tennis is sh--, I can't complain and say that it's enough ... I keep on trying. I still have to give back to tennis, for what tennis gave to me."

He is almost done giving now, so on to Paris. There, after all these years, Marat Safin will finally surrender to himself."

HoiHa said...

I was never a Safin fan - not that I disliked him or anything - but too much angst for my personal taste.

But as I watched his first round match in Shanghai against the Chinese player Gong (a player I had never heard of despite living in China) I realised that he was intentionally not going for shots so as not to give this guy a serious beat down in front of his home audience.

I thought it was a very kind thing for Safin to do. Respect.

Craig Hickman said...

With Roddick SOOOOOOOOOOO far behind the baseline, I sensed that with Wawrinka yanking him around and making him change directions so much, he's eventually going to tweak something, and lo and behold, he just did.

He popped a ligament in the back of his knee.

The man is cursed.

Pamela said...

So uh .. let me just get this off my chest :

Marat!! Don't gooooo! :(

Ok. I'm sorry. I'm done. I'm just watching him as much as I can because even when he loses I can see the talent there and of course the man is gorgeous so ... yeah. I heart him. I'll miss him when he's gone, but for now - I just hope he manages to make it past Berdych.

Graf_sampras said...

it will be nice of Marat Safin to Announce his official retirement after he WINS the SHANGHAI MASTERS....


to prepare for his Official COMEBACK starting with the AO in 2010.


it will be unique because it will be the Shortest Retirement EVER! and MERCURIAL QUICK at that!

Whole Sight said...

I had Delpo vs. Meltzer up on streaming video . . . watched Delpo throw away the 1st set . . . went away for a few minutes to do some work, came back, and the two players are shaking the ump's hand & that's it! Delpo retires early in 2nd set! WTF?! What is going on with this guy?! Did I miss an injury, or does he just "feel tired" again?! No news blurbs out yet to explain it.

Whole Sight said...

OK, so I came late to watching the 1st set - seems Delpo asked for the doc courtside after having gone down 3-0 in the first set. Obviously he kept going in that set and pulled even until losing 7-5 at the close - but something must have been bothering him. Have to wait to find out what.

Craig Hickman said...

Seem Delpo is making an appearance at the mandatories and nothing more.

Here's hoping that's what Roddick did as well.

Whole Sight said...

Yeah, I read now in the NYT that he says he's got lingering wrist tendinitis and he wants to rest & heal up for later.

MMT said...

"I realised that he was intentionally not going for shots so as not to give this guy a serious beat down in front of his home audience.

I thought it was a very kind thing for Safin to do. Respect."

I'm sorry, but if he was really doing that - just to cut this guy some slack, I think that's the most humiliating thing you can do to an opponent in sports.

I'm playing against my 14 year old sister, who is a novice, for whom I have no COMPETITIVE respect, I let her win some points.

But if I'm playing a guy in my league - even if his wife and children are there watching him - if I can take him love and love, I'd do it - and I'm not even a professional athlete.

HoiHa said...

MMT - "Face" is a hugely important social concept in China - it is considered the worst possible manners to embarass somebody - the person embarassed loses face, the person who causes someone to lose face is considered rude (or all powerful) - we have no concept like it in the west.

HoiHa said...

MMT - think of it more like an exo event ...

Craig Hickman said...

Because "save face" is such a common phrase in the West, and it means basically what you describe, I think we do.

HoiHa said...

Craig - years ago I was spending time in Taiwan and I remember inviting a Taiwanese colleague out to the movies once - she said she would love to go and we agreed to meet at the movie theatre - I was there at the assigned time - she never showed up. So when I saw her again the following week I said - "hey, what happened to you?" (this was pre-mobile phones) and she said "I was there, you simply didn't see me ..." I thought I was going mad because I knew she wasn't there and I knew there was no way I could have missed her.

I related the story to another colleague and I was told that if you invite someone as I did you cannot turn them down because to say no to me would have made me "lose face" - the polite thing to do was what she did ... pretend she was there but that we "missed" each other - that way nobody lost face and it all looked like a silly accident ... a huge waste of my time but that is far better than having her say to me she didn't want to or couldn't go ...

Trust me when I say we really do not live by the face concept in the west. We understand to a degree what it is but unless you have spent time in Asia I don't think people truly realise how much it impacts relationships and how intricate it is.

Craig Hickman said...

Thanks, HoiHa.

Sounds intricate. And terribly indirect.

edma1022 said...

I agree with HoiHa.

I lived and worked in Hong Kong for 2 years. (you know this, Craig ... that was when we met back in '04).

It is a big thing for the Chinese. Not to 'lose face'.

James Clavell wrote two novels abt HK - 'Tai-Pan' and 'Noble House'. In it, you'll read much about this concept and how it differs from the 'western' way of seeing things.

Graf_sampras said...

very interesting about the eastern matters. especially the chinese mode of thinking. it is true. i also am asian, after all and my best friend growing up was chinese.

it's part of what westerners call "the inscrutable" easterners or chinese particularly.

but that is simply a character that has been shaped over thousands of years that also explains in part why China, in particularly - happens today to be the oldest CONTINUOUS civilization on earth that has never suffered complete foreign dominance or control and successfully repelled any such attempts, be it by russia, or the other western nations that once "ganged up" on china beginning in the late 19th century when its last dynasties were become weak and corrupt.

part of china's general "concept" , one might say, is the ability to , if provoked made necessary, such as in a "fight" - to subtly surround even the strongest "adversary" aiming for its weak spots...while witholding any "big" moves...until, by the time the "bigger or stronger" adversary realizes - he is already defeated...or DOESN"T EVEN realize it.

this is a very old concept that began at least 2,300 hundred years ago from its first rulers.

one was famous for training his son and heir to strengthen his mind by inventing a veyr complex chinese game - known as "go" in japan...wherein the adversary is made to THINK and be "confident" that he is winning...but in reality is already losing. and involves very, very complex moves that are so subtle.

the western thinking generally thinks in terms of "dominoes" or straighforward actions...and chinese influence is truly very strong throughout asia.

you also see it today in china's rise ...even as it has to declare itself as a power. the underlying philosophy is STILL :

"do not show your full strength".

Karen said...

Interesting comments here. You learn so much by visiting message boards. This is similar but I am from Jamaica and for some reason people always have this concept that Jamaicans are friendly and outgoing and that all we do is sit on the beach and smoke pot. When I tell them that Jamaicans are one of the most conservative set of people you can ever find and that it is quite hard for Jamaicans to be friendly, they think I am joking. Then once they co-exist with me for a time they realise that we are really not all that friendly and it takes us a long time to "warm up" to people. I think the nature of a lot of peoples from all over the world is to allow themselves time to get to know people before sharing every aspect of your life with them. I find that Americans on a whole are some of the most friendly people I have ever met. That being said it makes you wonder whether they are genuinely friendly or if they are out to get something. I guess that may be the conservative side of me, but there you go.

MMT said...

East, West, North or South - competition is competition. And there's nothing more disrespectful to a genuine competitor than to have pity on him.

I give an example from the East - specifically Japan. In sumo there are ranking categories for the wrestlers - a yokozuna is a grand master and considered the best of the best (including history). A little bit like Federer and Nadal today, Sampras, Agassi from the previous era, etc.

Well, if a yokozuna starts losing all the time, he's not supposed to just hang on and collect a paycheck. He's supposed to do the honorable thing and fall on his sword.

Why?

Because all the other wrestlers, as much respect as they have for the yokozuna, simply must beat his arse if they can. Once it's apparent that he no longer has it in him, rather than expecting the other wresterlers to take it easy on him so he doesn't look so bad, he's supposed retire gracefully.

Not because he can't wrestle, but because it's beneath him not to wrestle as well as his title compels him to.

That's a bit obtuse, but the bottom line is thins - competition is competition - and there's nothing more disrespectful to a competition, and anyone associated with it, than faking it.

Craig, I think I have the subject for my next column...if tennis players were sumo wrestlers.

Craig Hickman said...

Fascinating stuff all around.

(Look forward, MMT).

tangerine said...

"a huge waste of my time but that is far better than having her say to me she didn't want to or couldn't go"

It is? I'd rather somebody say "No thanks" and save me from wasting my time.

Think of it like, if you ask a lot of girls out and they say "yes" and you show up and they don't, and this all happens within a week, I'd think you'd get tired of the "saving face" culture pretty quick.

Karen said...

@Tangi,you will perhaps start thinking, am I going mad? - or nobody likes me

Karen said...

I was never really a fan of Safin, and I have to say that I am still trying to figure out why everyone seems to go crazy over this guy. As far as I am concerned he is a waste of good talent. Yes,injuries seemed to have played a part in his results, but I think a lot of it had to do with his mind set on the court as well. Someone said recently that when people talk about certain players, they forget one thing - they play to win - regardless of who you are. They put out their best efforts all the time. Venus and Sharapova play out of their minds regardless of who is on the other side of the net. They are there to win.

edma1022 said...

tangerine: "Think of it like, if you ask a lot of girls out and they say "yes" and you show up and they don't, and this all happens within a week, I'd think you'd get tired of the "saving face" culture pretty quick."

:-))

I'm sure at the third day of being stood up by 3 successive girls, you'll think long and hard before reaching the 4th day. Something is terribly wrong and it's not just the women (or their culture) being "polite".

Indeed, the cultures in Asia are very very rich and varied. In fact, you can write a whole book on just the topic of Chinese table manners - from the way they tap the forefinger and middle finger together at the person who pours tea in their cup, or to a whole range of 'rules' on chopsticks at the dinner table ... like not to leave them stuck in a bowl of rice (because of superstition that it resembles grave markers, or incense stuck at pots in funerals) ... or not to spear food, or wave the chopsticks in the air, or point to someone with it, etc.).

But back to Safin, if there's anyone out there capable of enabling the Chinese opponent to 'save face' that would be Safin.

Although, I'm not exactly sure he's aware of this concept himself. It would likely come out naturally.

Craig Hickman said...

But back to Safin, if there's anyone out there capable of enabling the Chinese opponent to 'save face' that would be Safin.

Although, I'm not exactly sure he's aware of this concept himself. It would likely come out naturally.

::

That's kind of what I thought.

Graf_sampras said...

Indeed, the cultures in Asia are very very rich and varied. In fact, you can write a whole book on just the topic of Chinese table manners - from the way they tap the forefinger and middle finger together at the person who pours tea in their cup, or to a whole range of 'rules' on chopsticks at the dinner table ... like not to leave them stuck in a bowl of rice (because of superstition that it resembles grave markers, or incense stuck at pots in funerals) ... or not to spear food, or wave the chopsticks in the air, or point to someone

=========

LOL. that is true. even between cultures that use chopsticks there are still "differences" and they must be learned , right down to how to "pick up" a single grain of rice from the bowl if one were to show proper manners or respect towards the host or hostess.

many of these are probably easily impractical for many people, or even downright "waste of time" - if one were brought up in the "direct way" or the west.

but that's precisely also why many westerners FAIL to understand how to "get" easterners' approval, whether it is in getting business deals or favors..and why americans, for example have found out, to their consternation , they have to LEARN how to bow correctly to a japanese businessman , rather than "shake hands" (a rather wise habit considering how the hands can be the dirtiest of our outer part) , or that doing a business involves not merely sitting in a conference room...but drinking sake , spending the entire evening talking about things , in appearance, unconnected to the business...but whihc are used to gauge the potential "partner" or adversary..etc..

this lack of udnerstanding or even , one might say, WILLINGness of westerners to do so, is after all a big underlying part of WHY the USA, for example, or france, thought they could just dance their way into VIETNAM and vietnamese would simply bow their heads in submission ..and found out...50 years together in sum ... their modern armies and "advanced" civilizations couldn't even bring down a ragtag army of barefooted vietcong...and both left humiliated.

underlying that - is the lack of udnerstanding -- that these "inscrutable, slow-moving" easterners are good only for being servants.

and they were very , very wrong. they should have learned from Marco Polo long ago . who writes in his annals of his years in ancient china -- what a rich, prosperous, and extremely erudite nation it was....

in way - what some westerners do not, or still have not really understood is that...western preferences - at least about SOME things..if not all... are to the easterners considered BARBARIC..and even uncivilized..one of them being the "overly direct" way..as if one is rushing to get to the trough and drink and eats like a pig and can't wait and the sun is going to disappear forever...and so has to be given the answer "already"...: "yes or no? i gotta leave, u know, man?"

they have their very difficult and frustrating aspects , that is for sure.

but then, cultures do have those in their own ways, each one for a certain purpose of social behavior and expectation.

generally , i still would retain many eastern ways, and not trade them for a western way..many of whose habits are, to me, anyway, rather uncouth.

If safin did that intentionally or subconsciously, that is because, his awareness of BEING in china may have reminded him of certain habits that could be common to those like him and chinese who share certain geographical/cultural strains...HE after all is partly Mongol or combinations of central asian and asiatic blood. HE would know, even if he is "russian".

Graf_sampras said...

Roddick rules out knee surgery

Eurosport - Fri, 16 Oct 10:46:00 2009
Buzz Up!

World number six Andy Roddick will not need surgery on the knee injury that forced him to retire from this week's Shanghai Masters and is expected to be back in action in three weeks.
Andy Roddick of the U.S. supports himself after falling and injuring himself during a match against Stanislas Wawrinka of Switzerland REUTERS - 0
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* Reed: Greed at heart of burnout
* Agassi calls for shedule reform
* Djokovic says fitness helping avoid burnout

The American, who still needs to secure his berth at the season-ending World Tour Finals, pulled out of his match against Stanislas Wawrinka on Tuesday, one of seven withdrawals from the tournament so far.

"Results of the MRI (scan) showed a mild sprain of his medial collateral ligament of the left knee," a statement on Roddick's website said.

"The news was very good for Andy. No surgery will be needed and Andy is expected to make a 100 per cent recovery. Andy will rest and receive treatments and will be expected to start activity in two to three weeks."

That would make Roddick available for the November 8-15 Paris Masters, where he should be able to secure his spot at the season finale, which takes place in London from November 22.

Five players - Roger Federer, Rafa Nadal, Novak Djokovic, Andy Murray and Juan Martin del Potro - have already qualified, leaving three spots remaining.

Despite losing his first match in Beijing last week and his retirement in Shanghai, Roddick is in sixth place in the 2009 ranking points list that determines who qualifies, and has a comfortable, if not insurmountable, lead over the chasing pack.
Reuters



* Shanghai Masters: LIVE
* Nadal, Djokovic live up to seedings in Shanghai tennis
* Agassi calls for schedule reform

Whole Sight said...

Another insomniac report from Shanghai -

7:45 a.m. EST, and I've just seen Davydenko upset Djokovic in a tight match - he blitzed Dj. in the 3rd set tiebreak, winning it 7-1.

It's not that Djokovic played badly, either - Davydenko was just playing better than I've ever seen him (not that I've followed his career with a microscope). Some wicked angles for winners on his two-handed backhand, and rushing to net on his forehand side to attack anything short. Cool. I was rooting for him as the dog, despite liking Djokovic.

Coming to net for the handshake, Djokovic pursed his mouth & shrugged as if to say, "You were too much today."

Craig Hickman said...

I saw the end of the match, Whole Sight. Davydenko was in tip top form to be sure.

He smells another upset.

Helen W said...

With all the injuries and cries for a shorter season, how do you explain this?

Fromr Matthew Cronin:

With the top guys constantly complaining about the length of the season (and really, this week’s bitch session is about the Americans and Euros having to play a mandatory event in Asia in the fall before heading over to Europe for Paris and then London), how about the announcement that Roger Federer, Rafa Nadal, Jo-Wilfried Tsonga, Nikolay Davydenko, Fernando Verdasco and Robin Soderling will begin the 2010 season in Abu Dhabi by playing in a six-man, $250,000 winner-takes-all exo, where huge guarantees are also paid out. It’s utter hypocrisy to complain about the length of the season and then add to it by playing exos.

I have to agree with Cronin -- this is absurd.

Matt said...

OMG Craig that's exactly what I thought when I heard the result.

ANOTHER retirement!? This is mighty strange!

Money on Nadal or Davydenko for the title?

Graf_sampras said...

as another writer, in eurosport , put it:

It has to do with "GREED".

both sides, players and sponsors and events.


having said that - apart from feeling bad for ANY player having injuries , for any reason , at any time,

I personally don't feel much sympathy for the players complaining.

neither for roddick, nor nadal, nor federer, nor any others.

as SAFIN CORRECTLY reminded everyone:

when HE was playing as a top player until about 2004..he had begun pointing out that the required events were too many , even if HE had to do them himself...

BUT (and I recall that period when there was talk about it and safin was getting criticised BY fellow players like roddick for "griping") ...

now they themselves are complaining - who have themselves been PART of the entire business.

regardless of the tour officials "requiring" 8 out of 9 masters, which basically entraps players - while of course the other tournaments become "necessary" as warm-ups if they want to do well in a given top tier tour..and then around the slams...

it's still also the players themselves that have certain choices outside of those "required" ones.

I kept in mind that episode years ago when it was practically only Safin that looked like a clown and "whining" about the onset of injuries from having to play so much , especially the required ones, and as I explained players do with "warm-up to TOP EVENTS participation...

but in fact, recently, SAFIN WAS CORRECT in reminding people, particularly Roddick -- that when safin opened his mouth years ago -


fellow players berated safin for being "whiny"

but THAT"s because THESE same players TODAY that are getting injured DID NOT YET HAVE the amount of injuries THEN - when safin was already warning everyone that something needs to be done.


as safin should have said last few days as his parting shot -- admittedly though "bitter" it might be -

"DON"T SAY I DIDN"T TELL YOU SO".

players who complain today who didn't support safin years ago or others like him that mouthed off --

but are TODAY incurring injuries and pointing to the schedule which has basically been similar since 2000...


should not complain while BEHAVING as IF THEY were not themselves complicit since years ago -- for actually not standing up WITH SAFIN


because THEY thought they were being responsible for themselves - and could "take it" and "not whine" and be "manly"

and not "whiny like safin".

it is partly brought on by the powers-that-be.

it is partly brought on BY the players themselves. they are not as innocent as they might wish to parlay simply by taking the position of the "offended party" and complaining about the schedule.

an "offended party" YEARS AGO - was MARAT SAFIN who predicted these things and HE became

EXHIBIT A with his injuries soon after 2003.

others who THOUGHT they could do BETTER and Manage things - and thought safin was just whining - and they could "man-up"....

are the ones that now see it happening to themselves.

one of THESE is Roddick, another is Ljubicic, another is Davydenko....etc.

oddman said...

Quote:
Q. Is that because you're not so good looking and keep looking outside the court which makes you put more focus on your tennis? And given a chance, would you like to be more good looking or keep your life going like this?
NIKOLAY DAVYDENKO: Um, you know, if I be if I don't have wife, you know, maybe I can say, Yeah, I disappoint I'm not maybe good looking, yeah, but really I have many girls can be in Russia. I don't know about China, but in Russia, it's I still look good, like feeling comfortable, you know. (laughter.)
I mean, it's okay. I really not think about this, yeah?

***********

Jeebus. Tough questions in Shanghai for Kolya, no?

Helen W said...

Re the questions to Kolya from the Chinese press: I'm a little confused here. How does this jibe with the concept of "face" that was discussed earlier in this thread? I'm not wanting to diss anyone -- just wondering.

Craig Hickman said...

Oddman, I can hardly believe what you just posted.

oddman said...

Sorry, cannot find the actual transcript. But found the quote at VamosBrigade, where they're usually pretty reliable on their sources.

It may be from an interview that's not transcribed yet - negotiating the official Shanghai site is an exercise in futility, no?

rmchao said...

loL - i wasn't too surprised to read it. when it comes to "face" the reporters have no conception of it at all. they wouldn't be able to do their job if they did.

but really, think about it. do you think Western reporters accurately reflect our societal norms?

as yet another Easterner here (specifically from Taiwan) I have to agree with everything else that was said. also: what strikes other cultures as being unique or odd is sometimes so ingrained in the culture that you don't even think of it as culture. for example, when i was eating lunch as a kid with my American friend who offered me food, i declined. and waited. (to be offered again.) needless to say, the American friend didn't see the point of repeating the offer.

another thing to keep in mind is that it might be more indirect, but it's pointless to speculate whether one way is better or not. if you look at your preferences (say, you'd rather be flat out rejected than stood up) a lot of that is simply based on what you're already used to, e.g. you're a direct person because you've grown up in a society that values directness. what might seem silly or overly indirect or a waste of time sometimes have hidden benefits that explain why some societies are more successful with certain things than others.

HoiHa said...

Oddman and helen - that has nothing to do with face - Chinese are totally (dare I say embarassingly?) blunt when it comes to issues like looks ... it is not uncommon for example for you to meet up with someone you have not seen for a while and for them to say without batting an eyelash - "you have gotten fat".

I am attending a Chinese wedding banquet next month here in Hong Kong - the bride to be is my former secretary who I adore - anyway, a couple years ago when they were dating her fiance came by the office to pick her up and she introduced me to him - and right there in front of him she said to me "he is quite ugly but I like him."

What the west may consider polite Asians often don't and visa versa - for example it is perfectly acceptable in Asia for people - even complete strangers - to ask how much money you make; how much you pay for your home, your car; how much money your family has etc. By Western definitions these questions are rude - in Asia, perfectly acceptable.

Whole Sight said...

6:47 a.m., EST - Over in Shanghai, Rafa hits it long, it's called long. He challenges and Davydenko on the other side of the court sinks to his knees to watch the Hawkeye replay with the rest of the stadium: the expression on Davydenko's face is halfway between pleading & exultation. Indeed the shot was long. He jumps up & bounces happily to the net, where Rafa trudges up and offers a grim handshake but not much more.

Helen W said...

Thank you HoiHa and rmchao -- this cross-cultural discussion is fascinating!

I am not at all surprised that Kolya won against Rafa -- it sounds like he has been playing really well, and I don't think his game is a good match for Rafa. Who, it must be said, has been playing way too far behind the baseline this whole tournament. I think he is coming back but still has a way to go.

Graf_sampras said...

HOOORRRRRAAAAY for

CRAIGHICKMAN!!!


why? because he has such an openmindedness that people here can even go on "tangents" such as talking about cultures , norms, etc...and share information and knowledge and views...even if they just grew like a branch that OUTGREW even the TENNIS topics...hehe.

but then - when things "go back" to the main thing that brings people here -- the experience, imo, somehow , like what tennis as a "world sport" is supposed to do, brings some kind of awareness of just how VARIED things in the world are.

HOOORRRRRRAAAAAYYYY for Craighickman!!


that's my Main Thought for the Day! and have been thinking about it since yesterday! hehe

Graf_sampras said...

Karen, just so you know, my best friend at work is Jamaican -- and I love her to death!!!

oddman said...

Yes, Graf - Hooray indeed.

Interesting, the culture differences. I like it. I'm horrified that they asked Kolya about his face (so to speak), yet today am also filled with general glow about humans - we're all so 'lovable' in our ways. No one was trying to hurt there, no?

I can live with that. :)

Graf_sampras said...

for the record..in my view. Davydenko is actually rather "cute". sometimes he can look cadaverous because of his thinness and prominent bone structure and paleness and deep-set eyes. probably it's also because of his "low profile" carriage.

in any case..if to some he is "ugly"..then - like Hoiha's friend getting married:

Kolya's wife can say:

"he is ugly -- but i like him...in fact -- i ADORE him"!!

hehe

I can relate a personal story:

when i was growing up..two of my female cousins lived with us - and grew up with us after their mom died...they had such a large family , our granparents decided the "girls have to be near us"..

meaning really they were in my parents' house next door..but certainly , like ourselves, under my grandparents' reach. it was just the way it was.

so - they're like my sisters too.

in any case...the older one was considered a real beauty in the town and everyone was of course courting her...but she fell in love with my brother's classmate - who was considered in the town not so "attractive"...and actually has a limp from childhood polio..BUT very very smart and very personable. for some reason HE had MANY girlfriends.

they eventually married...but not after my cousin at some point gave HIM an "ultimatum"....finish up all the gigolo bit , where he was often "reported" by the neighorhoods that "oh....he was seen in his father's car with this or that girl from this or that neighborhood or the other school"....

once my cousin showed her "line in the sand"...our ENTIRE family gave him the "cold shoulder"...even my parents who were really buddies with HIS parents made it known to them that my cousin was very HURT...

and they probably gave him a lecture.

soon after -- they got married...and they are VERY,, VERY happy together with grown up, successful wonderful girls of their own. and he himself became a real darling to our clan...and both are so generous with their wealth (because he ended up being very successful working for a large Holdings company in asia).

but when we were all growing up in the town - he was always the but of jokes for his "ugly" looks ...but to MY cousin

he was everything in her eyes. and in the extended family - HIS opinion was always considered important even when they were newly married..and to my -parents who basically were my cousins' "parents" also (we actually all shared the same big bedroom , boys and girls, lol) in gatherings where some important decisions had to be made ...both he and my cousin were just as much part of discussions and decision-making...and often my brothers and dad would ask his opinion on matters.

Dapxin said...

I missed this thread...
and just got back, reading all 44 comments,
as I struggle with a horrible,
flu, my nose completely stuck,
but all Igotta say in finality is this:-

This site, and every of its regulars, transcends Tennis,
in a way that I am curious
to define,
yet struggle to pinpoint.

As I read, the intracately
engaging dicourse you guys
did on cultural differences,
each citing examples and counter-ex,
in the most stimulating ways,
I have ever come across,
I kept wondering, it was supposed,
to be about Tennis,
yet, I dare not stop reading...

And it dawns; Could it be that Tennis, in its own, serves us far more, than the ritual of ball-hitting - it fundamentals,
and we dont know it ?

maybe! but well hats off to every1

Graf_sampras said...

Dapxin said...

I missed this thread...
and just got back, reading all 44 comments,
as I struggle with a horrible,
flu, my nose completely stuck,
but all Igotta say in finality is this:-

This site, and every of its regulars, transcends Tennis,
in a way that I am curious
to define,
yet struggle to pinpoint.

As I read, the intracately
engaging dicourse you guys
did on cultural differences,
each citing examples and counter-ex,
in the most stimulating ways,
I have ever come across,
I kept wondering, it was supposed,
to be about Tennis,
yet, I dare not stop reading...

And it dawns; Could it be that Tennis, in its own, serves us far more, than the ritual of ball-hitting - it fundamentals,
and we dont know it ?

maybe! but well hats off to every1

Mon Oct 19, 07:54:00 AM

=========


it all depends on WHO moderates as well as how people tolerate "tangential" subjects or discussions and their willingness to "exlore" as far as the tangents themselves will lead.

Craighickman's only "rule" - we all know and should be reminded - is that people don't attack each other . and the rest is clearly a matter of "degree" of perception as to how "far afield" things go - and whether or not that is "tolerable"


this is one reason why I have largely stopped posting in tennis boards - because sooner or later - someone can not tolerate MY "tangents"..such as going "political" or "social" or "cultural" in such a way that it becomes "distracting" as they would say.

to ME - they are NEVER distracting...they are simply part of the FAR, FAR larger context of events in this world

in which TENNIS simply happens to be the "starting" point or the central focus in a particular "blog" or message board.

Tennis - like the "world of finance" -- is NOT the World. it is only a SUBSET of it.

as a great , superbly erudite writer on economics, politics, history, culture - named

Henry CK Liu puts it (writing for a favorite news source of mine : Asiatimesonline, where one can get REAL news, not this propaganda on the USA media)

"The US dogma of Free market fundamentalism teaches that the MARKET is everything...it is NOT...it is merely a SUBSET of the economy, just as Banking and Monetarism is only a Subset of the *market*...the TRUE wealth of Nations is not Money...it is PEOPLE...for without people there is no economy".

the SAME applies to TENNIS.

Tennis is only a subset of SPORTS...and Sports is only a subset of human events..which INCLUDE "cultures" and tennis itself is only a subset of cultural, political, economic events in the world.

it is rather ignorant, imo, to focus on "something" simply because it is a favorite pasttime - without taking from it what can be learned or shared about the world - of which that something is only a SMALL part -

simply because it is the "focus".

that is , imo, a path to further ignorance and blinding oneself, by means of "distracting" oneself from far, far larger issues

of which the "distraction" - if allowed to be that way - not only makes a person continue to be ignorant but downright DISABLED to udnerstand why EVEN THAT thing (tennis) is what it IS for losing sight of its SMALL place in the larger context....

such as what we are seeing in discussions here:

"cultures, economics, politics -- PEOPLE, COUNTRIES"......

and TINy, TINY , inside it -- is


Tennis.


it is only a SUBSET of the world events.

Graf_sampras said...

to sum:

for me anyway,

to talk about ANYTHING ...

one can no more talk about "anything" and NOT talk about everything ELSE.

they are all connected, no matter how "distant" it may seem or unapparent to many people.

THAT is of course the problem in blogs or message boards whose rules or demands by posters say:

"talk ONLY about tennis-RELATED" things


RELATED?

EVERYTHING in this world is related.

only idiots will pretend

tennis or anything can be ISOLATED from the rest of the world.

when we talked about "shyness" of KOLYA - or "perceptions" of ugliness because it was reported. because interviewers asked him - a tennis player...

did THAT happen - all of those particular, distinct events - IN A VACUUM disconnected from CULTURE, POLITICS and ECONOMICS?

why were they IN shanghai?

because Shanghai and China have become wealther...politics, economics, culture.

because China has around 14 tennis courts opening up EVERY DAY as a result of its growing clout...because THAT created a tennis following...because they have MONEY to throw around...because the chinese want to show they are able to appreciate things "not chinese"...

etc. etc. etc.

WANNA KNOW MORE about things in the world as they REALLY are ? and their history? and understand WHERE tennis REALLY is in all these?

read HENRY CK LIU in AsiaTimesonline.


he will blow your mind even talking about the histories of cultures and civilizations all the way from ancient persia and the judaic "laws of economics" ...and WHY china's culture is what it is - and why their proposed "new basket of currencies" to replace or subsume the Dollar hegemony is going to ensure that China WILL have MORE tennis tournaments ...because they can AFFORD it. and perhaps why the chinese will also learn another NEW thing for them:


how to "interview westerners" so as to SAVE FACE for westerners and not make THEM feel "shy".....


roflmao!!!

Graf_sampras said...

That being said it makes you wonder whether they are genuinely friendly or if they are out to get something. I guess that may be the conservative side of me, but there you go.

Fri Oct 16, 02:04:00 PM

========

KAREN -- to me , it is simple:

a person is genuine as a friend when that person is willing as much as he or she is able - to SACRIFICE something FOR you.

it is no different from our own parents sacrificing their comfort...making sure their child eats first...is dressed properly...etc...

each one of us - i believe is blessed with the capacity to be a "MOTHER" to each other..whether we are male or female.

IMO - that is the true legacy and destiny of the human race - KINDNESS and generosity towards each other, sharing. rather than selfishness and greed.

and it is something that comes from our Mother Earth..which unfortunately - we often ignore and suppress and say there are "more important things"

which only end up being Greed and Selfishness .

an example at present is this:

a news report from new Guinea said:

its native people are so worried - they have been seeing planeloads of US corporations flying in loads of "palm oil" seeds to plant and turn their islands into a plantation for "palm oil" fuel and so forth...and starting to impose a "monetary" system which the new guinea folks don't like...saying:

"our way of life is one about sharing - and now they want us to accept this way of money-making and taking our land".

maybe they'll have enough "money" to have a tennis tournament ........and so goes the way of the world...